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User talk:Wolf Link89
The Oracle Games Placement Wolf Link89 (talk) :After looking closer at the Oracle games, I have discovered that each goddess' oracle controls a certain measurement or time: Nayru - Years, Din - Seasons, Farore - Days. Also, the games are CLEARLY meant to follow Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. The only problem is that in the child timeline, Ganondorf is sealed in the Twilight Realm (revealed in Twilight Princess). So for Ganondorf to be revived by Twinrova is impossible. The games have been suggested to be dreams by many fans, which I never believed. Now I think it is the only reasonable answer. Another point is that everyone in Hyrule believes Ganondorf to be dead, and only the Ancient Sages know that he was banished to the Twilight Realm. The only remaining answer would be that the games follow MM before Link becomes the Hero's Shade. Does anyone else have points they can add? --Wolf Link89 (talk) 18:05, February 3, 2011 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :Always glad to provide a citation. Some quotes to answer your question: :"A kid like you may not know this, but the Gerudo race consists only of women. Only one man is born every hundred years... Even though our laws say that lone male Gerudo must become King of the Gerudo, I'll never bow to such an evil man!" -Nabooru, OoT :"Once every 100 years, a special child is born unto my people. That child is destined to be the mighty guardian of the Gerudo and the desert. But this child, its heart grew twisted with every passing year. The child became a man who hungered for power at any price." -A Gerudo, FSA (definitely talking about Ganondorf from the context) :There may be more places it says that, but those are some solid in-game ones for both of the games that show Hyrulian Gerudo.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 02:26, March 2, 2011 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :Thanks. I heard Midna say that her ancestor's king was lost to greed and since the Twili were Sheikah and Gerudo I wondered if every king was named Ganondorf, that yet another Ganondorf that turned evil must of existed. This Ganon could be the villian for Skyward Sword, or be the Ganondorf that is reborn twice. If all Gerudo Kings are not named Ganondorf, then it may just be a coincidence.--Wolf Link89 (talk) 02:39, March 2, 2011 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :The Twili's ancestors are not confirmed. Obviously you can say whatever you want in your theories/timeline, but just wanted to make sure you knew as far as like mainspace and stuff it's not official.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 03:08, March 2, 2011 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :Yes I am aware. But to me it is quite obvious. Now are there any quotes referring to the naming of the King of the Gerudo.--Wolf Link89 (talk) 03:17, March 2, 2011 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :Hmm... I'm having difficulty finding any. It may be only the 100 years and leader (guardian in FSA's case) things. Even if there is nothing, it's not much of a leap so suspect the name thing given the way names recur across the timeline in Zelda. As far as concrete proof though, I have nothing, at least for now.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 03:48, March 2, 2011 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :Thanks for your help. and yeah, there seems to be A LOT of reacurring names in the series.--Wolf Link89 (talk) 04:11, March 2, 2011 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89's Timeline 4.0 Wolf Link89 (talk) :I believe I have finally done it. This timeline is perfect. With some help from friends and fans around the internet it was acheived. It almost seemes obvious now that it has been done and I do not know what took me so long. I feel I have kept all of the game's original intentions intact. Also I realized that placing games in the Adult Timeline when that side was created soley for Wind Waker and it's sequels is stupid. Please take a look at the timeline and tell me if you find flaws or what you think. --Wolf Link89 (talk) 00:20, December 17, 2010 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89's Timeline 3.0 Wolf Link89 (talk) :Thanks to some friends at Zeldapedia and Zelda fans around the internet I have fixed my timeline and it is stronger then ever. The only difficulties are the placing of Four Swords Adventures, which doesn't go hardly anywhere, and whether or not Ganon is reincarneted (only once per side). Thanks for the help and I hope you enjoy all the work that's went into this timeline. I welcome feedback. --Wolf Link89 (talk) 02:20, December 2, 2010 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :OK no. FSA and ALttP are not working there. I think they have a different Ganon then in OoT and WW. The problem is...where to put them. They could go after WW on New Hyrule (but I really don't like that idea) or possibly...even before the timeline split. Maybe he is the Ganon before Time Ganon while there were still Gerudo and a Pyramid of Power. That's why Twinrova had to give birth to Ganon in OoT. Only problem with that is the stupid Hylian Civil War and that the Seven Sages would be descendants of the Seven Maidens and not vice versa. Where to place them... --Wolf Link89 (talk) 20:46, December 4, 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :Just to clarify, Koume and Kotake are OoT Ganondorfs foster parents. They raised him, and they're probably responsible for Ganondorf being so evil and magically skilled, but his biological father and mother are not known. :Both FSA and ALttP have a Dark World, which was not created until half way through the plot of OoT. Any timeline claiming they come before would require some excuse for another dark world. :When Aonuma was talking about Skyward Sword's timeline placement, he said it was before OoT, implying that OoT was, as of then, the time the first game in the timeline. OoT happens just after the Civil War, and the civil war started because people got wind of the Triforce, and the Triforce symbol appears even in games where the Triforce itself is not involved, implying they already know of it. Also, the Triforce is in it's original resting place at the beginning of OoT, and it's being taken from their sets up other games in which it is featured. All this makes me think OoT was first (not counting Skyward Sword). Here is where I place the games you are wondering about in the timeline I believe is most plausible. I say some other ones for context/explanation: :Spirit Tracks Happens: It's confirmed that the adult timeline order goes: OoT>WW>PH>ST :War of the Bound Chest: The Minish give the Hylians a magical force (Light Force) and a sword with the power to repel evil (Picori Blade), to fill in for the absence of any Triforce pieces or Master Sword. :Minish Cap: Known to follow War of the Bound Chest. :Four Sword: If we assume Vaati was sealed in the Four Sword instead of dying at the end of MC (and MC being the only time he has an origin, it seems like a reasonable assumption), then this is likely next, as it puts him back in the sword, which is where he starts off FSA. :Four Swords Adventures: Vaati is apparently killed and definitely not sealed in the sword (that was Ganon this time), so this has to be 3rd in the Vaati/Four Sword Saga. A Ganon that is obviously very similar to ALttP Ganon ends up sealed in both the Dark World and Four Sword. :A Link to the Past: The four sword turns out to have been stolen by Dark Link in the bonus dungeon of the GBA release. The other seal on Ganon is the Sages' seal on the Dark World, which is what Ganon breaks during the game. After this Ganon is defeated, there is no indication that he is sealed or escapes. The Essence of the Triforce actually says that he was totally destroyed. Now that's exactly the kind of quote that can end up retconned, but as far as I know there's no reason to believe it is. :There are, as with every theory, game to game connections here that can not be 100% confirmed. There are only a couple actual holes in this theory, that I can think of anyway (again, wich the information we have, I'm pretty sure there are going to be at least small holes in any attempt to put all the games together): 1-Vaati must be assumed to be sealed at the end of MC and not killed (that doesn't seem weird to me given the other games); 2-The Master Sword makes it to New Hyrule's Lost Woods after having been left in OoT/WW Ganon's petrified head in flooded old Hyrule. Maybe this happened as part of Daphnes's wish for hope for the future; the sword was transported to the lost woods for the sake of a future generation.--Fierce Deku (talk) 23:58, December 4, 2010 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :New Hyrule has never shown that it knows of the power of the Triforce or that it has access to the Sacred Realm at all. It is often believed that access was lost when Hyrule was flooded. New Hyrule's Triforce has basically been replaced with the power of the Spirits of Good. Also no spirit tracks or landmarks of New Hyrule appear in FSA or ALttP. I think it is impossible for them to be placed there. Also they cannot happen between OoT and WW because Ganondorf holds the Triforce of Power while Ganon is suppossed to have wished on the entire Triforce. Where could they possibly go?!? --Wolf Link89 (talk) 00:47, December 8, 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :I can't say much regarding possible conflicts with Spirit Tracks (I would like to play it eventually but simply don't have a DS). I can say that the people of new Hyrule could easily be aware of the Triforce, given what Link and Tetra knew about it, and according to the wiki Zelda's dress still has a Triforce symbol on it (though that doesn't mean anyone knows what it is). People probably don't talk about it much because it's not really there, and the spirits of good are more immediately relevant to them. If ST ends with the Spirits of Good and whatever power you were talking about still present and guarding Hyrule, and having no reason to fade, then that would make the MC/FS/FSA/ALttP arc a strange follow up. If the tracks/trains are still there, then maybe they ran out of whatever they use for fuel and the technology fell into disrepair, or something. And landmarks can't really disprove anything as it is generally believed that the geography of Hyrule will change from game to game even when in the same place (TP has several unexplained differences from OoT even though it's the same Hyrule). It's not impossible that the Four Sword/ALttP saga takes place in New Hyrule, but your pointing out the conflicts led me to think of another possibility. :Part way through playing Wind Waker, I though this was the explanation for Hyrule coming back, though it later turned out that they just discovered New Hyrule. But now it's a possible alternate explanation for the Four Sword Arc: :Here is a quote by the Great Deku Tree from Wind Waker: :"Every year after the Koroks perform this ceremony, they fly off to the distant islands on the sea and plant my seeds in the hopes that new forests will grow. :Forests hold great power--they can change one tiny island into a much larger island. Soon, a day will come when all the islands are one, connected by earth and grove. :And the people who live on that great island will be able to join hands and, together, create a better world. :Such is my dream." :You heard the Tree: :Old Hyrule 2: The Sequel :I'm now considering that the entire Four Sword/Vaati/ALttP saga (probably followed by the LoZ/ZeldaII/Oracle/Awakening arc) may take place in yet another Hyrule, that was eventually formed above Old Hyrule, thanks to the Deku Tree and our Korok friends. For the rest of this post, I'll call the Hyrules by the names "Old Hyrule" (OoT/TP, underwater in WW), "New Hyrule" (ST), and "Hyrule 3" (precursor in WW, fully formed in MC/FS/FSA/ALttP, and probably also LoZ/Zelda II/Oracle/Awakening). :There are a couple problems with this theory, and it's mainly just up to the individual whether the "New Hyrule>>>Minish Cap" inconsistencies or the "Great Sea Islands Merging = Hyrule 3>>>Minish Cap" inconsistencies are more of a problem. If MC>FS>FSA>ALttP do take place in Hyrule 3, then the royal family would have to get started somehow. As far as we know, Tetra is the last person in the line of the Royal Family at the end of WW. Unless she had an unknown sibling/cousin or something who knew the traditions and legends of the royal family, someone from New Hyrule would have to go back to Hyrule 3 at some point. Maybe someone who was aware of the Triforce, Sages, etc., decided to go back and try to restore the old ways. Hyrule 3 is somewhat more likely to have access to the Sacred Realm/Dark World, though neither New Hyrule nor Hyrule 3 can be strictly proven to have or not have access. Hyrule 3 also is spatially closer to the Master Sword which will later make a reappearance, though it's still not explained how it got out of G's petrified head at the bottom of the ocean. Hyrule 3, assuming a member of the Royal Family came back and restarted the line, is also somewhat more likely to have a complete set of Sages (Makar and Medli were unknowing future sages, so the remaining ones would most likely still be on the great sea/Hyrule 3 as well, though some may also ahve migrated to New Hyrule). Hyrule 3 at the time is also lacking an anti-evil sword and magic force, which the Minish can provide them (I'm not sure but at the end of ST there may be some kind of Triforce replacement related to the Spirits of Good?). Now, both lands have guardians that would have to vanish by MC, New Hyrule has the Spirits of Good, and Hyrule 3 has Valoo, the Great Deku Tree, and Jabun. It's worth noting at this point though that such deities have been known to disappear over time; The Deku Tree Sprout and Jabu Jabu or anything like them are completely absent from TP. The Light Spirits are the lands protectors in that game (actually, the Light Spirits should be present in OoT as far as timelines are concerned. Maybe they show up in TP specifically to combat the threat of the Interlopers/Twili, like they did before. They certainly didn't show up to help with OoT Ganondorf...). :So yeah, I'm having trouble placing the MC>FS>FSA>ALttP arc in one place over the other. Both would require some guardian deities leaving, both require the Master Sword coming back from under the sea, both require access to the sacred realm. New Hyrule would have to lose the trains and whatever other force the Spirits of Good made (if anything), but Hyrule 3 is lacking a Royal Family. I'm kind of at a loss to peg one as more plausible without some additional evidence.--Fierce Deku (talk) 05:20, December 9, 2010 (UTC) Timeline Arcs Fierce Deku (talk) :I just wanted to say I like the Timeline Arc page on your profile. If you want, you could also put a \/ or something in the linesapce between games that are officially confirmed to be connected. You could also specify which timeline the arcs take place in (if possible). Or you might rather keep it less cluttered and leave it as is. Just a thought.--Fierce Deku (talk) 00:30, December 8, 2010 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :Thank you. Sadly there are many fans who do not believe in anything Nintendo confirms and some that do not believe in a complete Timeline, but you cannot say that each game is individual. That section is for people who like the games in a sequence that makes sense but do not want a overall timeline.--Wolf Link89 (talk) 00:50, December 8, 2010 (UTC) ---- Theory Help Wolf Link89 (talk) :I need help on some things. :Are FSA and ALttP parallel games or sequels. As you should know they are incredibly similar and i just can't see how Ganondorf ends up in the Sacred/Dark Realm on both sides of the timeline. SOLVED * :Do the oracles follow ALttp or Zelda II? Twinrova can exist either way and the outcome is the same. SOLVED * :Who is the goddess of Time (do not say Nayru, that's different), Who is the patron god of the Light Sage, Who is the patron god of the Light Spirit of Ordona, and What is the Light Force (Capcom Games Only) related to the TriForce? SOLVED * :Do you think Ganon is reincarnated just like Link and Zelda in times like between Twilight Princess and The Legend of Zelda, or Four Swords Adventures and Wind Waker. SOLVED --Wolf Link89 (talk) 22:00, November 30th, 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) : FSA and ALttP have many parallels, but technically there is no absolute 100% confirmation that one follows the other. I personally think they are adjacent on the timeline, with the most logical order of things being that the Four Sword/Vaati related games are all connected, then followed by LttP, in the order: :The rest of this post contains some degree of >>>>>SPOILERS<<<<< for the following games; Minsh Cap, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker: If you want me to re-write this with spoilers for certain games removed let me know; :MC: Vaati originates in this game, and the Picori blade becomes the Four Sword for the first time. It's obvious that this would be the first of the Four Sword games. :FS: This would come next. We have to assume here that Vaati was sealed in the four sword as opposed to just exploding like it appears in the end of MC, or else some unknown indecent causes a then-free Vaati to be sealed. We know Vaati starts out as a Minish and then Hylian-ish guy, transforms into a giant eye in MC, and is only ever seen as a giant eye in all other games. This implies that it is all one Vaati. :FSA: This would be after FS seeing as Vaati is apparently killed, and Ganon is sealed in the sword as supposed to him. Note that the four sword sanctuary appears to be in the dark world. While the Ganon from OoT was killed in wind waker, there is no reason to believe that the sacred realm would do anything but remain the dark world and remain sealed by the sages. Between the events of FS and FSA, the seven maidens probably decided to seal Vaati not only in the four sword (which he apparently escaped from with no outside influence at the start of FS), but also in the dark world. Similarly, FSA Ganon would appear to be sealed in both the Four Sword and the Dark World as well. :LttP: So with this theory, LttP does follow/reference OoT, it's just that the Ganon you fight is actually a different one. The FSA and ALttP Ganons have very similar appearances, both wield a Trident, throw it like a boomerang, teleport in the same way, have the same battle music, etc. In the bonus dungeon, "Palace of the Four Sword", found in the GBA version of ALttP, a Dark Link has stolen the Four Sword. This explains why FSA Ganon was freed from the Four Sword Seal. The events of ALttP chronicle his breaking free of the seal the seven sages/maidens have on the dark world. :One thing that WW did to the timeline was screw up the OoT ALttP connection by killing that Ganon rather than sealing him in the Sacred realm. We (me at least) were hoping for that Ganon to be sealed in along with the whole Triforce, setting up ALttP perfectly, but were sorely disappointed. :Aounuma(sp?) became more involved in the Zelda story/timeline at about the this time, if I'm correct, and may have been watching the timeline a little more closely than others. Whether or not I'm right about Aounuma, the very next game to come out was FSA, which is heavily laden with ALttP references, and even has a dark world sealed by seven maidens. And that very game explains the origins of another Ganon, one even more similar to the ALttP one than original OoT Ganon was. It procedes to seal this Ganon off in a perfect way to set up ALttP. It seems to me that this was an intentional "fix" of the timeline which they had sort of broken in WW. The "missing Link", if you'll pardon the pun. :At the end of WW, the Triforce is seen flying away; probably back to the sacred realm/dark world where it will eventually be found by FSA/ALttP Ganon. It's also worth noting here that after new Hyrule is founded, they are without a Triforce or Master sword. Then, in the War of the Bound Chest, the Minish create a magical force and sword with the power to repel evil, perfectly filling the holes our hero's have in their arsenal. :I think that about covers your first question... By the way, I can't reconcile the Dark World existing in both timelines either; it seems like in the child timeline the sacred realm would never have been open and Ganon would never have touched the Triforce. * :It's not confirmed where the Oracle games come in, but I'm thinking it's after Zelda II: Both in Zelda II and in the Oracle games Link is said to have a Triforce mark on his hand, and ALttP Link is not said to have this. There is an old lady Impa in both Oracle and Zelda II, but not in ALttP. There are also just a bunch of little references to the NES in oracle, like all the NES bosses that re-appear in seasons, the NES ring, and other little things. Having no definitive reason to put it either place, all this adds up to oracle may as well follow NES. :By the way, I place the NES after ALttP in the timeline. ALttP is the first time the entire Triforce has been in the hands of the Royal family at the end of a game, which sets up for the Zelda/Zelda II backstory. * :Gods in the Zelda games can be confusing and vague. Often simply "the Gods" are referred to as doing something, and not anyone specific. I'm not sure I get what you're specific questions about the Gods are. * :About the Light Force; it is a magical force created by the Minish and given to the Hylians to help in the War of the Bound chest. Other than them both being magical forces, the light force and Triforce have confirmed connection. The Light force is depicted once as a golden triangle; this may simply be because the Hylians had legends about the Triforce, though the Light Force was similar, and so used that symbol. As I said earlier, if my timeline placements are correct, the Hylians had no piece of the Triforce nor the Master Sword, and thus the Minish may have made equivalents (Light Force and Picori Blade(Later made into the Four Sword)) to be used in their place. :Sorry if I didn't explain something clearly enough, I had to go and didn't have time to proof-read this whole thing.--Fierce Deku (talk) 01:40, December 1, 2010 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :Thanks so much for your feedback. I agree completly with the Oracle placments now. I also just realized that The Seven Sages were never awakened by the ancieNT sages in the child timeline which would leave no-one for the seven maidens to be descended from on that side. As long as ALttP does not KILL Ganondorf in the end, I think FSA would have to be placed following it. I did like the idea of the parallel stories but it does not seem to work. my timeline is in the process of a major edit I will try to finish soon. Thanks again.--Wolf Link89 (talk) 23:00, November 30th 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :Sure, always happy to talk about timeline theories. If think (as I do) that the FSA and ALttP Ganons are the same, it seems like FSA would have to come first. FSA explains how Ganondorf, who had been living with the Gerudo until recently, went into the dessert to quest for the Trident, and thus came to power. The game ends with Ganon being sealed in the Dark World and the Four Sword, both of which are dealt with in ALttP. ALttP on the other hand ends with both of those seals broken (though there's no reason they couldn't be restored), and also, during the ending, the Essence of the Triforce says that Link "Totally Destroyed Ganon", which you can see in this vid at 1:28.--Fierce Deku (talk) 04:05, December 1, 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :In response to the Ganon question, yes, I believe there are multiple Ganons, just like there are multiple of many characters. OoT sets this up perfectly by saying that there is a single male Gerudo born every 1000 years and named Ganondorf. Further evidence is that the FSA and OoT Ganons have pretty specific origins that conflict, implying they are different. Furthermore, a Ganon/Ganondorf dies 5 times throughout the series, with only one, partially successful resurrection ever being shown or mentioned. My timeline theory calls for 3 separate Ganons, with the OoT one dying once in each timeline, and the NES one getting revived in Oracle, only to die right after.--Fierce Deku (talk) 02:48, December 2, 2010 (UTC) ---- Wolf Link89 (talk) :I almost felt like there was a traditon of naming the Gerudo Kings Ganondorf but I could not remember. I feel like the first Ganondorf created an evil spirit (Malladus?) that sorta finds it's way into the bodies of Male Gerudo. I feel that the only new Ganons are the ones in WW and tLoZ. I think the backstory of the Ganon in FSA is just more insight of the story before Ocarina of Time. I need to rewatch the endings and openings of FSA and aLttP and place them again.--Wolf Link89 (talk) 23:24, December 2, 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :It's possible the original Ganon is responsible for some sort of evil spirit that is passed down, though there's no particular supporting or refuting evidence. Lots of other people in Zelda manage to have near identical incarnations though. I'm afraid I can't comment of Malladus as I've never played any of the DS games. I definitely agree that the tLoZ Ganon would be a new one. As for WW, it's said outright that he is the very same Ganon who was sealed away by the Hero of Time and the Seven Sages. In order to have only 2 Ganons, there would need to be a resurrection that was not shown or mentioned by any game. :In FSA, Ganon comes from a friendly Gerudo tribe and there is already a Dark World and Seven Sages. In OoT, Ganon comes from Gerudo who are thieves, the sages of the time don't know they are sages yet (except Rauru), and Ganon of course didn't touch the Triforce yet so the Dark World does not exist as such. In FSA Ganon apparently got the Trident and launched his invasion very quickly, and was then sealed in the Four Sword and already existent Dark World, which makes it unlikely he is the same one as OoT. :Other Note: The Hyrulian civil war ends with the tribes of the land uniting under the Hylian Royal Family. It also ends approximately 10 years before OoT seeing as OoT Link was orphaned by it. If a game mentions the Triforce, it pretty much has to come after OoT seeing as the Triforce is what started the war. If you believe the Four Sword/Vaati games start with Minish Cap, they probably come after the war, considering all the Triforce emblems you can see in MC.--Fierce Deku (talk) 04:25, December 3, 2010 (UTC) Wolf Link89 (talk) :I really need help placing FSA and ALttP -which I now strongly believe are sequels. Where could these possibly go since Ganon is never again sealed in the Dark Realm/Sacred Realm and it doesn't feel right placing them on New Hyrule so they must be before WW, but how? --Wolf Link89 (talk) 12:46, December 3, 2010 (UTC) ---- Fierce Deku (talk) :I talk about this more in a response I just posted to your Timeline 3.0 thread. Couple more points; FSA/ALttP can't be before OoT because there isn't a Dark World yet. WW goes right on into PH, and ST I hear has at least one character of normal lifespan surviving from PH. If they aren't after ST, it seems like there's no room for the games other than between OoT and WW, and that would require two separate Ganons sealed/escaping from the Dark World at the same time! So I can't see anywhere to put FSA/ALttP other than New Hyrule.--Fierce Deku (talk) 00:16, December 5, 2010 (UTC) ---- Random thoughts on Skyward Sword Wolf Link89 (talk) :Wouldn't it be cool if Skyward Sword was the story of Majora? By the end of the game Link would look like the Fierce Deity and end up sealing him in the mask. A highly unlikey story but a cool thought. What would Skyloft have anything to do with?--Wolf Link89 (talk) 21:00, November 20th, 2010 (UTC) ---- Welcome -- AuronKaizer (Talk) 00:19, June 21, 2010 Edit to your page Sorry for rollbacking your IP edit. I wanted to do a summary reminding you that you need to be logged-in to edit your page, but I accidentally clicked the wrong button. Green Rupee 04:37, November 20, 2012 (UTC)